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Fen fen & other diet drugs

Last post 16-08-2007, 3:19 AM by DrTPeltzer. 7 replies.
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  •  13-08-2007, 10:04 PM 38245

    Fen fen & other diet drugs

    I have a pre-med question. After attending the course and hearing the explanation about how few cardiac conditions "need" pre-medication, I was discussing this with the other doctors in the office and we decided to update our medical questionnaire. I suggested we use the one provided by DOCS.  I don't see anything on the DOCS Health History questionnaire regarding Fen fen or other diet drugs we were "so" concerned about in the past. I think we would no longer need to pre-medicate for patients that have taken these drugs so no real reason to ask the question. Am I correct?
    Dentist in Paradise
  •  14-08-2007, 6:34 PM 38246 in reply to 38245

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    Check with Feck & Fang to make sure that a former Fen Phen patient doesn't need special treatment. If they don't, then I see no reason to include that question on the Health History questionnaire.
  •  14-08-2007, 6:46 PM 38247 in reply to 38245

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    in the new guidelines, valvular disease related to Fen-Fen fell out as a condition for prophylaxis:  life is definitely easier.  The only conditions that require prophylaxis now include:

    1.  Prosthetic valves
    2.  Prior episode of infective endocarditis
    3.  Very rare congenital heart diseases
    4.  Cardiac transplant patients with valvulitis

    Les

    lesfang
  •  15-08-2007, 3:37 AM 38252 in reply to 38247

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    Les,

    May I assume you would feel very comfortable if I administered IV Ampicillin on an IV sedation patient who needed prophylaxis or who had a physician who said regardless of the new guidelines he wanted the patient prophylaxed anyway even though the patient no longer fit the criteria of when to institute antibiotic prophylaxis and began treatment within 5 to 10 minutes? The antibiotic is immediately in the blood stream when given IV when I have an IV started anyway for sedation purposes.

    Tom


    Thomas Peltzer, D.M.D.
    IV Sedation Dentistry
  •  15-08-2007, 8:19 AM 38258 in reply to 38252

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    I have no concerns but would like to add the following caveat:

     1.  I was expert witness on a case where the dental professional administered amoxicillin prophylaxis to a patient with MVP without prolapse, with a documentation from the patient's physician indicating that, in his opinion, prophylaxis is necessary even though the guidelines recommended against it.  The patient anaphylaxed and unfortunately died in the dental office.  BOTH the dentist and the physician were sued.  The case was eventually settled, after considerable amount of finger-pointing.

    If I were you, I would retreat to the "I'm just a dentist" routine, indicate that the prophylaxis is not according to guidelines, indicate that you would be much more comfortable if the physician writes the prophylaxis prescription, and carefully document your thought process in the chart.

    2.  Although there is a regimen for IV ampicillin, it is designed exclusively for patients who cannot take po.  You are correct that you would be able to get Ampicillin into the blood stream relatively promptly with IV administration.  However, oral amoxicillin is very rapidly absorbed and you would get reasonable level of antibiotics in within 20 minutes of administration.  In France, many patients get chairside amoxicillin.  The new recommendations suggest 30-60 minutes prior to the procedure.  In sum, you can do it, but it is probably not necessary in the majority of instances

     

    Les


    lesfang
  •  15-08-2007, 5:52 PM 38267 in reply to 38258

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    Les,

    Thanks for your valuable input to cover us. Believe me I appreciate it. It's really, really hard for me to enter that mode of "I'm just the dentist" but you are indeed absolutely right. Let's let the physician take the responsibility even though they are wrong. No reference to you indended or implied of course. It's just very,very frustrating. I find many, many physicians are sticking to the "old" AHA guidelines and overriding my advisement to most patients that they no longer need to be premedicated.....why is that? Don't they know we have experts like you to teach us? Where do they learn new, updated protocols?

    Tom


    Thomas Peltzer, D.M.D.
    IV Sedation Dentistry
  •  15-08-2007, 6:59 PM 38271 in reply to 38267

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    I just did a survey on the MGH staff on medical grand rounds:  only 58% of them (the cream of the crop in US Medicine, so they think) are aware of the new guidelines!!
    I believe that it would be prudent to keep a set of guidelines in your office and send it to physicians who are stuck on the "old" guidelines.  I would again advise that you indicate that you are uncomfortable going against guidelines but would be happy to let them write the prescriptions.  Document the interchange in your chart.

    I obviously have been advising my patients of the change in guidelines:  I can tell you that VIRTUALLY ALL of my patients actually breathe a sigh of relief.  Very few of the patients are concerned.  For those that are concerned, I tell them that the new guideline is driven by the fact the likelihood of dying from anaphylaxis is higher than the likelihood of dying from bacterial endocarditis.  The concern is immediately gone!

    In short, ignorance is not an excuse (particularly in the court of law);  arrogance is worse!

    Les

    lesfang
  •  16-08-2007, 3:19 AM 38273 in reply to 38271

    Re: Fen fen & other diet drugs

    Les,

    58%? That's incredible.Thanks for the help. I love your last sentence!

    Tom


    Thomas Peltzer, D.M.D.
    IV Sedation Dentistry
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